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Dialogue with an atheist - Part 7 - Spirits - by P.K.Odendaal - December 2012
GLC:Hi Atheist, why are you coming back time
and again. I thought you would have shunned my company many moons ago.
Atheist:I don't know. I do not like Christians, but
somehow you give me something to think about now and then. You sometimes have a
point - a weak one, but still. And you do not shun or force Christianity down
my throat immediately, like other Christians do. I am so fed up with them about
that. But ... what are we talking about today.
GLC:We are going to jump directly into the
spiritual world - the one you are so sure does not exist. You must have
gathered from the subject of our previous dialogue, called 'Evil', that I would
now follow with Spirits, because spirits are the abode of evil. Evil does not
exist anywhere else, despite this humorous poem by Lewis Carroll (from
That Spectre left you on the third -
Since then you've not been haunted:
For, as he never sent us word,
'Twas quite by accident we heard
That anyone was wanted
A Spectre has first choice, by right,
In filling up a vacancy;
Then Phantom, Goblin, Elf and Sprite -
If all these fail them, they invite
The nicest Ghoul that they can find.
The Spectre said the place was low,
And that you kept bad wine:
So, as a Phantom had to go,
And I was first, of course, you know,
I couldn't well decline
Atheist:Wow, that is a sweeping statement ... and a
GLC:I wish I could be swept away into that
very interesting and comprehensive world, but it is a very dangerous world for
us, as we are not equipped or ready-made for that world. That is why there is
such a definitive division between the physical and the spiritual or
meta-physical world. I do not know the science and rules which governs it, but
I know that one cannot go from the one into the other without dressing yourself
up with a physical or spiritual body, whichever is in vogue in each, and we do
not have the faculty to do that easily.
Atheist:But what makes you think there is such a
GLC:I know it by induction. I am sure you
know the concept of induction. If I know that two plus three is five and two
plus four is six, then I deduce that two plus five would be seven - I
interpolate and extrapolate to arrive at that. Induction is the basis of
science and mathematics.
Atheist:And how would you apply that to the spiritual
GLC:Let's start with light. Light is
composed of wavelengths varying from radio-waves with wavelengths of about
1000m, to gamma-rays with wavelengths of
about 10-12m, and we can only see a very small fraction of it. Why
do you think the other wavelengths were made for?
Atheist:Purposeless as most other things on earth
are, including me and you.
GLC:I am not sure how far you have travelled
down the nihilistic path, but I can assure you I am nowhere on it. For me the
earth is beautiful, exciting and fulfilling, and it is easy to demonstrate that
this is so. I have never seen or heard of anyone, who, when facing death, did
not choose life there and then.
Atheist:Maybe you are right, and now you are going to
take me down the garden path of sound as well, which works exactly the same.
GLC:Correct. And this follows for almost all
the senses. We do not even have enough senses to sense most of the sensible
things in the universe.
Lastly I wish to embroider
somewhat on the dimensions.
If you have not heard of Line land,
Flatland and Cubic land, then you must read up on it. We can only experience
three dimensions, but we know there are infinite dimensions, form our
mathematics and from Hilbert Space. I will not burden you with the latter, but in
mathematics we can even predict what the area and volume of a four-dimensional sphere,
called a Super Sphere is, although we cannot see or imagine it.
Who do you think lives in these
My deduction is that the meta-physical
world is vastly greater than the physical one. But, I am not here for a highly
technical discussion. Let me tell you of my own practical experiences.
Atheist:I would love to hear.
GLC:I was totally unaware of this world,
until I went to the Air Force for compulsory military training, and I landed up
in a bungalow with a telepathist. The first few days he thought that I was
communicating with him spiritually, and he told me many times during that first
week, that I was working on him. And then about two weeks later he established whom
the person in our bungalow was who was communicating with him. From the on it
was flabbergasting. We would set them tasks, putting them in different rooms,
ask one of them to indicate a colour to us, and then we would go to the other
room, to find out from this person what that colour was. He did not miss one
My second meeting with someone
who communicated in this other world, was with a spiritual medium, some two
years later. At the Goodwood Show, there was a stall occupied by Dr. Spirit
(not his real name). I paid some money, and was directed to a table behind a
screen a few meters away from him. I was told to write down five questions on a
piece of paper in total privacy. Whilst I wrote down those questions, I could
hear Dr. Spirit typing away on his typewriter. When I finished, I wanted to
hand his assistant my hand written questions, but was told: "No, Dr.
Spirit does not need it. Here, he has already typed out all the answers to your
five questions - and even some extra stuff. And there it was. It was even typed
in the sequence I asked the questions. It is now fifty years later. He was
wrong on none of those counts.
Atheist:Wow, that it incredible. You sure he had no
mirror or video hidden somewhere?
GLC:Not even nearly. This practise is called
You must have read books or heard
stories of NDE's (near death experiences) or ADE's (after death experiences)
and séances? There are thousands of them that I know of, and it would take me
hours or days to relate them to you, but it is real.
I conclude with the latest
findings in science.
When they started with
experimentation on nuclei of atoms, they found that the particles did not
behave in a rational or scientific manner, but in a probabilistic manner, to
which Einstein replied: 'God does not play dice.'
Once we investigate phenomena on
the boundary between these two worlds, everything becomes blurred and grey and
uncertain. That is why no-one could never establish physically what goes on in
the spiritual world. And that is why you are an atheist.
Atheist:True. Until I see a physical demonstration of
that spiritual world, I will not believe in it.
GLC:And that the mathematician, Gödel,
proved you will never see.
So are you going to hang on to only
your own goal area of this vast playing field, much like people stay in the
known environment of their homes, family and work, and never bother to travel