Dialogue with an Atheist - Part 3 - Gravity of the situation

Dialogue with and atheist - Part 1 - by P.K.Odendaal - October 2012

Gravity of the situation.

GLC:        Hi Atheist, I did not know that you would come back for another session of our dialogue. You looked very perplexed last time.
Atheist:   You left you too much to think about, although I cannot get myself to think where you got it wrong - but wrong you surely got it. So I might redeem myself today with some fresh new arguments.
GLC:        And speaking of redemption. Why would you want to redeem yourself. Where did you get lost or lost your faith or your self-composure. I thought that only Christians looked for redemption.

Atheist:   I thought so too, but nowadays all kinds of people are looking for redemption - albeit a type of self-redemption. You may have noticed quite a few films these days on self-redemption. The one I like best is Seven Pounds starring Will Smith.
GLC:        Oh, yes that one. I remember it now, although I think your choice of words are quite incorrect. It is not about self-redemption - it is about restitution. I have heard many people make the same sort of mistake, but don't worry because I also know quite a few Christians who make this same mistake, despite the fact that confession, redemption and restitution is such an integral part of our faith.
Atheist:   So what does these high sounding words mean?
GLC:        They are in fact very simple. The truth is that mankind was sold down the river by Adam, having obtained a very eager buyer called Satan - a guy you would also think does not exist, but he in fact has also been sold down the river by himself - and that's why Adam found him there - or more correctly, he found Eve there. So we need to receive our inheritance back, by being redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ - but of course, that is only available to believers who have confessed their sins or confessed the fact that they have been sold down the river. Restitution is just a few words spoken in remorse, like : 'I am sorry I hurt you, please forgive me'. You know, the type of words you should say after a heated difference of opinion with someone else.
               But that is not our topic today.
               We have progressed from a thing which does not exist - remember the hole in the flag, to numbers which do not exist - like the number two - and today we talk about something even more intangible - the idea of Gravity. I am sure you have heard of it before.
Atheist:   Of course - all we humans are subject to it - no way of escaping it.
GLC:        I must therefore accept that you believe in gravity.
Atheist:   Of course. Isaac Newton discovered it. He discovered it in the seventeenth century, and scientists have proved it over and over to be true, save for a slight discrepancy explained by Einstein.
GLC:        Do you believe in it as a phenomenon or as a physical thing?
Atheist:   It is just like my brain. Gravity is a function of a celestial body like earth, which is physical.
GLC:        So you say that earth has these genes that makes it attract other celestial bodies with the same type of genes?
Atheist:   Yes, it is partly like that, but it is called mass. Mass has the property of gravity.
GLC:        So in where in the massive body is the force we call gravity? Is it in the protons and neutrons perhaps, as we were taught at school - remember the atomic weight?.
Atheist:   No not at all. The source of gravity has never been found. The world scientific community is spending trillions of dollars presently, to try and find the particle in which it lives - so to speak.
GLC:        What!!! I know Newton's laws by heart. But one thing I can assure you is that Newton never discovered gravity, neither has anyone on earth ever discovered gravity and neither can gravity exist or live in a particle. Newton only discovered the formula which describes the effects of gravity
Atheist:   My, my, my ... I did not know that.
GLC:        But why do you think they are looking for the Higgs Boson particle in very expensive super particle colliders. They suspect that the Higgs Boson particle will contain gravity as one of its properties. That's why we call it the God particle - it is thought by us that God must be the origin of the particle or at least of gravity, although your scientists really call it the God-damn particle. They cannot call it a God particle, because they maintain that God does not exist - and therefore their particle will then also not exist. But I can tell you now, they are looking for it in vain. Gravity is not tied to or inherent in a particle.
Atheist:   How can you say that?
GLC:        It is not me who says it - it is your scientists. Sorry, I meant those scientists whom you believe in. It is quite simple to deduct that from their arguments.
               They say that the universe was created from the explosion of a particle or singularity with very high energy light. As matter and energy, as you may well know, cannot not be created or destroyed inside this universe, and so the gravitational pull of that particle would never have let light out - it would be the mother of all black holes, if you ask me.
               In fact, there is a hypothesis, another name for scientific speculation, that gravity is a property of space time, but even that will prove to be false. How can space or time exert such a force. If we talk about intangible objects - these are the mother of them all.
Atheist:   Ok, I believe you that it has never been found.
GLC:        But, if it has never been found, how can you believe in it? It is no more tangible than the idea of God - I think even less so. In fact, if you look at the properties of God and that of gravity, you will find that it is almost exactly the same, except that God is many other things as well. Isn't that bigotry to believe in gravity, which we have not yet found, and not in God, whose creation we see every day. I am sorry, but I do not buy that stuff.
               If it is ever found that gravity is only found in God, will you then stop to believe in gravity? You are not only an atheist - you are also a  agraviteist?
Atheist:   I must admit that I cannot give you a rational answer, although rationality is my strong point - it might even be my only point.
               But why are we so sure of gravity then?
GLC:        We study gravity by the effects it has on large bodies, such as heavenly bodies. We are sure of the effect of gravity - in minute detail. And if you want to pull this analogy through to God - that is exactly the way we Christians study Him - by His effects on us.
Atheist:   So you mean that gravity - and therefore also God - resides outside the universe.
GLC:        Yes, although their effects are felt within the universe. You surely already know that only objects with up to three dimensions are observable with the naked eye in our universe - and of course as I said, God and gravity. But not only that. Even light and the other forces like the nuclear and electromagnetic forces live in the same domain as God and are in fact all really intangible properties of God. Light only exposes itself partly in our universe by a thing called its eigen value - a deconstructed matrix of its original image.
Atheist:   But I thought there was nothing outside the universe.
GLC:        Another fallacy. Firstly - the use of the word nothing is about the most intangible thing I can think of - and I am quite sure THAT does not exist. I cannot believe that Nothing does exist. Scripture says that Rom 4:17 : ... , even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Atheist:   But the scientists say that outside the rapidly advancing front of the expanding universe there is nothing.
GLC:        No, there are many things outside that advancing front, but we cannot see it or even think about it. That is why scripture says that : 1Co 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Atheist:   How can you prove that?
GLC:        Are hypotheses only reserved for scientists?
               Have you not heard that scientists say that you cannot leave this universe, other than through the dark tunnel of a Black Hole and then probably land in another universe?
Atheist:   Yes, they seem to be quite sure of that.
GLC:        Have you then not heard from the testimony of people who have had after death experiences (ADE), that they say they go through a dark tunnel with a light at the end. What is that other than a type of Black hole into another domain?
Atheist:   You are confusing me now big time.
GLC:        I cannot believe it. I thought that you were already confused, being an atheist.
               It is quite clear to me that God was outside the Big Bang singularity, when the universe was created, so why would you want to look for Him here in this universe. Have you ever been inside anything which you created? So - why do you then expect God to be inside His creation?
Atheist:   Now I have heard it all.
GLC:        I wish you would return one day for another surprise. Maybe you are not really an atheist, but only an agnostic posing as an atheist - but that we will find out next time. Good bye for now.