Dialogue with an Atheist - Part 2

Dialogue with an Atheist - Part 2 - by P.K.Odendaal - November 2012

Our Protagonist's acronym GLC stands for God Loving Creature.

Less tangible objects.

GLC:        Hi there, Atheist, where are you hurrying to?

Atheist:   I am off to some business at the bank.

GLC:        Why did you all of a sudden remember to rush off to the bank just when you saw me?

Atheist:   I do not like you Christians. You think the world belongs to you. Everywhere you have people in high places trying to dictate policy along Christian principles, which the rest of us do not like.

GLC:        You are not perhaps talking of some church going people who wish to force their church dogma onto you?

Atheist:   Yes, exactly.

Dialogue with an atheist - Part 1

Dialogue with and atheist - Part 1 - by P.K.Odendaal - October 2012 

Our Protagonist's acronym GLC stands for God Loving Creature.

This is a continuation of my previous dialogues, and like the others, this is also a hypothetical dialogue. Not that it is fictional. It is a summary of all the discussions and arguments I have had with atheists and agnostics over many years, and of the principles of their unbelief written in many books I have read. In this dialogue my own words will be prefixed by the acronym GLC meaning a God Loving Creature. 

GLC:        So Atheist, what do you believe in?

Atheist:   I can better tell you what I do not believe in. I am an atheist and I do not believe in God. I only believe in things that I can see or observe - things material and physical. Things which I do not believe in is anything else. I do not believe in the meta-physical world or something intangible.

Adult Sunday School - Part 17 - The Dead shall rise

Adult Sunday School - Part 25 - The dead shall rise - by P.K.Odendaal - October 2012. 

Ouch! ... that's a terrible blow to atheists. They think that they can just die one day, and never live again - and never answer for their deeds on earth or anywhere else. How convenient. Atheists believe in determinism which states that each cause has an effect. But, they omit to state that it is only they who are free from this injunction, as their lives and deeds - and death - has no consequences or effects. How inconsistent is that belief? Enough of that. I am here to bury Caesar, not to praise him, lest he should rise again.

But there is a way you may rise again.

Adult Sunday School - Part 16 - The Sign of Jonah

Adult Sunday School - Part 16 - The Sign of Jonah - by P.K.Odendaal - October 2012

Jonah is one of the shortest books in the bible, but so full of meaning and prophecy, that one can hardly ignore it. In fact - it is one of the first books newcomers read, being such a wonderful and even far-fetched story of someone being swallowed by a whale and later spit out on a beach.

So whilst it is a miracle, we will not stop there, but probe deeper into the underlying meaning, especially since Jesus Christ told us that He was giving us the sign of Jonah, when asked for a sign (by the people). Mat 12:39  But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: v:40  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Adult Sunday School - Part 15 - The Lamb of God

Adult Sunday School - Part 15 - The Lamb of God - by P.K.Odendaal

Written October 2010, Rewritten April 2012, April 2014, April 2019

Writing about the Lamb of God is a continuing process as new insights are gained every time the scripture is studied again. It is Pass-over 2019 now and I have freshly considered the last week of the life of Christ. In this last week He is fulfilling the prophecies of the Lamb of God and showing us what will transpire towards the end of the world. Once again I gained new perspectives on this subject since I wrote the original article back then.

Adult Sunday School - Part 14 - The Last Judgment

Adult Sunday School - Part 14 - The Last Judgment - by P.K.Odendaal - October 2012. 

This used to send shivers up my spine, but not anymore - and you can prepare yourself for this to take the sting out of it. But sure as we live, there will be a Final or Last Judgement of the World. It will be like a court case for individuals and nations, and it is easiest to think of it in terms of a court case on earth, as what we have on earth is based on a justice system instituted by God for Israel.

The basis for any such a court case is the presence of a judge (Jesus Christ), an accuser (Satan), an accused (me and you), witnesses (anyone we wish to call), and the Law (Mosaic Law and the Bible). We all know the procedures which will be followed. Satan will bring in an accusation against us, we will plead guilty or not, and if we plead innocence, we will need to defend ourselves with suitably prepared witnesses and arguments in terms of the Law (and the rest of the Bible).

Adult Sunday School - Part 13 - The Rapture and The Bride

Adult Sunday School - Part 13 - The Rapture and The Bride - by P.K.Odendaal - September 2012.

The rapture refers to a group of Christians, known as the Bride of Christ, leaving the earth, in their transformed, bodies, whilst alive, to go to Heaven, in order to  be the bride at the Marriage of the Lamb.

It is not spelled out in detail in the Bible, but we have quite a few scriptures which hints at it, and there are many stories and prophecies out of which we can learn about it.

And it starts quite early in the Bible, because this is what the Bible is really all about. Adam is created by God, and God prepares a bride for him, out of his own body. God creates mankind and prepares a nation, Israel, out of them, to be His wife - whom He has divorced subsequently. Lastly God creates His Church on earth, from which he prepares a bride for His Son. The same theme goes on and on, especially when you read the numerous Bible stories related to a wedding.

A Hymn to God the Father

A Hymn to God the Father - by John Donne

 

Wilt Thou forgive that sin where I begun,

Which was my sin, though it were done before?

Wilt thou forgive that sin through which I run,

And do run still, though still I do deplore?

When Thou hast done, Thou hast not done,

For I have more.

 

Wilt thou forgive that sin which I have won

Others to sin and made my sin their door?

Wilt Thou forgive that sin which I did shun 

A year, or two, but wallowed in a score?

When Thou hast done, Thou hast not done,

For I have more.

 

I have a sin of fear, that when I have spun

My last thread, I shall perish on the shore;

Swear by thyself that at my death Thy Son

Shall shine as he shines now, and heretofore;

And having done that, Thou hast done,

I fear no more.

Adult Sunday School - Part 12 - Absalom

Adult Sunday School - Part 12 - Absalom - by P.K.Odendaal - September 2012 

We have looked previously at Joseph as a type for Jesus Christ, and we find the same type of story repeated in another form with another person named Absalom.

It starts strikingly in the form of Absalom as the son of David. 2 Sa 13:1  And it came to pass after this, that Absalom the son of David ...

Compare this with : Mark 10:48  And many charged him that he should hold his peace: but he cried the more a great deal, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.

So they both were sons of David prophetically speaking.

It ends strikingly with both being killed by hanging on a tree. That is enough for us to start to make comparisons. There are of course again differences as a son of mankind cannot completely mimic the story of a son of God.

Philosophy - Part 23 - Revisiting The Sunset Limited

Philosophy - Part 23 - Revisiting The Sunset Limited - by P.K.Odendaal - September 2012 

Some people approach me from time to time, to ask me for advice on social and spiritual matters, and although I almost always understand their problem and offer them some general help, I am usually unable to really understand what goes on inside them, why they have this question or problem, and what I should say to them - and I usually end up offering them the wrong or irrelevant advice.

When I saw the film 'The Sunset Limited', I had this overpowering desire to understand the dilemma of White and to offer him some advice - advice which Black was apparently unable to offer him, to prevent his second suicide attempt. And that is what started this series on philosophy.

Adult Sunday School - Part 11 - Let my people go

Adult Sunday School - Part 11 - Let my people go - by P.K.Odendaal - August 2012 

Now that we have learnt what a type is and how one story is mapped to another, we can look at Exodus and Revelation, in which Exodus is mapped to Revelation. Both have the central theme of releasing God's people from bondage into bliss.

To understand this story we must start with what belongs to whom.

God has made the earth and it belonged to Him, but He decided to give dominion over it, without any strings attached, to Adam and Eve, to dress and to keep: Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Philosophy - Part 22 - Orthodoxy and Heresy

Philosophy - Part 22 - Orthodoxy and Heresy - by P.K.Odendaal - September 2012 

This piece is also known as the forces of man, in contrast to my previous article on the forces of God - see part 8. The forces of man are orthodoxy, heresy, rationalism, empiricism, induction, determinism and materialism.

I will try to define them as well I can.

Rationalism - the explanation of things in terms of our reason or our worldview.

Empiricism - the explanation of things in terms of our experimentation results, without an accepted theory. It is the notion that similar experiments will yield similar results, even if we do not know what the reason for that is.

Induction - the explanation of things in terms of their outcome in previous similar circumstances and conditions and extrapolating them into unknown areas. If we say one plus one is two, then we can safely assume that two plus two is four.

Adult Sunday School - Part 10 - Gideon

Adult Sunday School - Part 10 - Gideon - by P.K.Odendaal - September 2012

How do you go from rejection, bitterness, accusations and humiliation to arrogant and steadfast faith? How can any man go from the one extreme to the other? Just ask Gideon. For me he is an example of what can be done if you are touched by God - more than once. Many of us are touched by God and it stays a touch - and even soon disappears.

Read the article by Annemie here :

http://what-a-friend-an.blogspot.com/2012/08/dont-let-your-encounter-with-god-leave.html

I have been touched by God many times, and it stays an anchor for my soul in times of abject depression, which fortunately are quite rare.

We start off with Gideon - himself, his family and his nation being rejected and forgotten by God, with no hope and no God.

Adult Sunday School - Part 9 - Revenge

Adult Sunday School - Part 9 - Revenge - by P.K.Odendaal - September 2012

 

We have seen that the law had to come, and that minimised but partly legitimised revenge, although it was not meant to. It was meant to give redress only.

But, despite this, mankind persisted in revenge on a grand scale, and we have only to look at Samson to see this. Samson is our type for revenge, because that is more or less what his life consisted of - and the sad part was that he was such a man of God called a Nazarite who was called to free his people from bondage by the Philistines. Instead he brought them into further bondage.

Philosophy - Part 17 - Induction

Philosophy - Part 17 - Induction - by P.K.Odendaal - August 2012 

It is probable that all we know, we know from a process called induction - a very powerful mathematical and scientific tool, greatly neglected by fields like philosophy, psychology and religion. Mathematical induction is a method of mathematical proof typically used to establish that a given statement is true for all natural numbers. In science and philosophy it is a kind of reasoning that constructs or evaluates general propositions that are derived from specific examples.

One such an example is a statement by Goldbach, called the Goldbach conjecture. In 1742 he conjectured in a letter to Euler that every even number from 4 onwards is the sum of two prime numbers like in 12=5+7. No proof of this is known other than that Tomas Oliveira e Silva proved in 2008 that it is true for all whole numbers up to 10¹⁸.

Adult Sunday School - Part 8 - Joseph

Adult Sunday School - Part 8 - Joseph as a type for (of) Jesus - by P.K.Odendaal - August 2012

We find the story of Joseph in Genesis chapters 30 to 50, and nowhere else in the Bible has one man gotten so much coverage as Joseph, except Jesus Christ, and the point is that it is a very important story. Not so important as a story of Joseph, but much more importantly, as a foreshadow of the story of Jesus Christ.

The story of Joseph contains numerous intrigues, prophecies, examples and lessons interspersed with the best mankind has in terms of courage, long-suffering, forgiveness and love - characteristics we find in Jesus Christ himself. So we are not going to read this story as a story of Joseph. We are going to delve deeper into it and regard it as a story of the life and times of Jesus Christ.

Adult Sunday School - Part 7 - The Law

Adult Sunday School - Part 7 - The Law - by P.K.Odendaal - August 2012

We find ourselves in the beginning of the world. Adam and Eve, who knew God personally, may have died already. What do we find? Violence, revenge, war, aggression - and people in bondage, even slavery. And this despite God's will that we be kind to each other and enjoy His creation.

How did this transpire then? It is because we could sin with impunity. There was no law. God wanted us to be free and not subject to any laws other than the one forbidding us to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.

But we had eaten of this fruit - we now know what sin and evil is, and we are going to pursue this line for survival, not knowing that it leads to death.

Of course we will not be punished for our sin and evil, other than dying because of it one day. So there is this uneasy peace with God, and it is building up tension between us and God and between us and our fellow men. We were on a path of self-destruction.

Adult Sunday School - Part 6 - Shaking the Earth again

Adult Sunday School - Part 6 - The earth is shaken for a last time. - by P.K.Odendaal - August 2012. 

Whilst we are busy with the destruction of the earth and the subsequent reconstruction and replenishment on many occasions, it will be prudent to take it to its final conclusion. What we know is that in most of these cases only the earth was shaken, but in the end of times, the heaven will be shaken as well as in:

Heb. 12:26  Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

In previous parts I have already dwelt on the meaning of heaven as referring to the sky. Our conclusion is thus that on many of the occasions when the earth was destroyed it was done from inside itself as a sort of implosion, but in Revelation the skies will also be shaken, meaning that the whole earth will tumble as in:

Adult Sunday School - Part 5 - The first sin

Adult Sunday School - Part 5 - The first sin - by P.K.Odendaal - August 2012

And so the world was new again and there was no sin and no law and no evil, only a serious warning by God that they should not eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, because they would then die (spiritually).

Gen 2:17  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

It is clear from this that when there is no law and no knowledge of evil then there cannot be any sin. This verse says that once you know what is good and evil, then you will know what is sin and then you will die of your sin.

Adult Sunday School - Part 4 - Regeneration

Adult Sunday School - Part 4 - Regeneration and Replenishment of Earth. - by P.K.Odendaal - July 2012

And so we come to Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

We have seen in the previous part how the earth was laid waste, being void, and without form and without light. It was time for God to remake the vessel :

Jer. 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make.

If we read this story as the story of creation, we will see many anomalies and discrepancies. If we read it as the regeneration of earth, we will find it interesting. If we read between the lines or on a deeper level, we will find it vital and exciting - and I will try to bring all three to you.