20 Dec 2012

Dialogue with an atheist - Part 7 - Spirits

Dialogue with an atheist - Part 7 - Spirits - by P.K.Odendaal - December 2012

GLC:        Hi Atheist, why are you coming back time and again. I thought you would have shunned my company many moons ago.
Atheist:   I don't know. I do not like Christians, but somehow you give me something to think about now and then. You sometimes have a point - a weak one, but still. And you do not shun or force Christianity down my throat immediately, like other Christians do. I am so fed up with them about that. But ... what are we talking about today.
GLC:        We are going to jump directly into the spiritual world - the one you are so sure does not exist. You must have gathered from the subject of our previous dialogue, called 'Evil', that I would now follow with Spirits, because spirits are the abode of evil. Evil does not exist anywhere else, despite this humorous poem by Lewis Carroll (from Phantasmagoria):

That Spectre left you on the third -
Since then you've not been haunted:
For, as he never sent us word,
'Twas quite by accident we heard
That anyone was wanted

A Spectre has first choice, by right,
In filling up a vacancy;
Then Phantom, Goblin, Elf and Sprite -
If all these fail them, they invite
The nicest Ghoul that they can find. 

The Spectre said the place was low,
And that you kept bad wine:
So, as a Phantom had to go,
And I was first, of course, you know,
I couldn't well decline 

Atheist:   Wow, that is a sweeping statement ... and a beautiful poem.
GLC:        I wish I could be swept away into that very interesting and comprehensive world, but it is a very dangerous world for us, as we are not equipped or ready-made for that world. That is why there is such a definitive division between the physical and the spiritual or meta-physical world. I do not know the science and rules which governs it, but I know that one cannot go from the one into the other without dressing yourself up with a physical or spiritual body, whichever is in vogue in each, and we do not have the faculty to do that easily.
Atheist:   But what makes you think there is such a world?
GLC:        I know it by induction. I am sure you know the concept of induction. If I know that two plus three is five and two plus four is six, then I deduce that two plus five would be seven - I interpolate and extrapolate to arrive at that. Induction is the basis of science and mathematics.
Atheist:   And how would you apply that to the spiritual world?
GLC:        Let's start with light. Light is composed of wavelengths varying from radio-waves with wavelengths of about 1000m, to gamma-rays with  wavelengths of about 10-12m, and we can only see a very small fraction of it. Why do you think the other wavelengths were made for?
Atheist:   Purposeless as most other things on earth are, including me and you.
GLC:        I am not sure how far you have travelled down the nihilistic path, but I can assure you I am nowhere on it. For me the earth is beautiful, exciting and fulfilling, and it is easy to demonstrate that this is so. I have never seen or heard of anyone, who, when facing death, did not choose life there and then.
Atheist:   Maybe you are right, and now you are going to take me down the garden path of sound as well, which works exactly the same.
GLC:        Correct. And this follows for almost all the senses. We do not even have enough senses to sense most of the sensible things in the universe.
               Lastly I wish to embroider somewhat on the dimensions.
               If you have not heard of Line land, Flatland and Cubic land, then you must read up on it. We can only experience three dimensions, but we know there are infinite dimensions, form our mathematics and from Hilbert Space. I will not burden you with the latter, but in mathematics we can even predict what the area and volume of a four-dimensional sphere, called a Super Sphere is, although we cannot see or imagine it.
               Who do you think lives in these multi-dimensional space?
               My deduction is that the meta-physical world is vastly greater than the physical one. But, I am not here for a highly technical discussion. Let me tell you of my own practical experiences.
Atheist:   I would love to hear.
GLC:        I was totally unaware of this world, until I went to the Air Force for compulsory military training, and I landed up in a bungalow with a telepathist. The first few days he thought that I was communicating with him spiritually, and he told me many times during that first week, that I was working on him. And then about two weeks later he established whom the person in our bungalow was who was communicating with him. From the on it was flabbergasting. We would set them tasks, putting them in different rooms, ask one of them to indicate a colour to us, and then we would go to the other room, to find out from this person what that colour was. He did not miss one clue.
               My second meeting with someone who communicated in this other world, was with a spiritual medium, some two years later. At the Goodwood Show, there was a stall occupied by Dr. Spirit (not his real name). I paid some money, and was directed to a table behind a screen a few meters away from him. I was told to write down five questions on a piece of paper in total privacy. Whilst I wrote down those questions, I could hear Dr. Spirit typing away on his typewriter. When I finished, I wanted to hand his assistant my hand written questions, but was told: "No, Dr. Spirit does not need it. Here, he has already typed out all the answers to your five questions - and even some extra stuff. And there it was. It was even typed in the sequence I asked the questions. It is now fifty years later. He was wrong on none of those counts.
Atheist:   Wow, that it incredible. You sure he had no mirror or video hidden somewhere?
GLC:        Not even nearly. This practise is called the Occult.
               You must have read books or heard stories of NDE's (near death experiences) or ADE's (after death experiences) and séances? There are thousands of them that I know of, and it would take me hours or days to relate them to you, but it is real.
               I conclude with the latest findings in science.
               When they started with experimentation on nuclei of atoms, they found that the particles did not behave in a rational or scientific manner, but in a probabilistic manner, to which Einstein replied: 'God does not play dice.'
               Once we investigate phenomena on the boundary between these two worlds, everything becomes blurred and grey and uncertain. That is why no-one could never establish physically what goes on in the spiritual world. And that is why you are an atheist.
Atheist:   True. Until I see a physical demonstration of that spiritual world, I will not believe in it.
GLC:        And that the mathematician, Gödel, proved you will never see.
               So are you going to hang on to only your own goal area of this vast playing field, much like people stay in the known environment of their homes, family and work, and never bother to travel elsewhere?
Atheist:   I will have to think about it.


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