Written by P.K.Odendaal - 16 Feb. 2011
PART 3: Is there a proof for the existence of God ?
Moses: Now that we know your logical system, can you help us to make a
logical conclusion between free will and a knowledge of the existence of God.
Aristotle: Yes, here it is (if I understand you correclty):
A : God wanted to make man like himself
to be friends with, and to converse with him and to appoint him to reign over
the universe as a king and priest.
B : If man had to be like God, he had to
have free will.
C : If man knew for sure, by scientific
analysis, rational thought or deduction, that there was a God, who was
righteous and who punished sin, then man would have been under duress and fear
of punishment and eternal damnation, thereby inhibiting his free will.
Z : QED - it easily follows that God
cannot reveal himself in any scientific or rational way, if He wants people to
exercise their Free Will unhindered
Moses: Some may argue that I depart from false premises - that of God existing, which is an invalid criticism, as I am not here to argue that God does exist, only that if He existed, we would not have been able to prove His existence in a logical way, without losing or impairing our free will, which is the most wonderful part of Creation..
That
is the crux of the matter - very well put, clever Ari !! No wonder you were so
admired by all.
Aristotle: Thanks, but I must also draw your attention to the work of Kurt Gödel
- his Incompleteness Theorem.
Moses: And how does it work ?
Aristotle: In 1931 Kurt Gödel published his Incompleteness theorem. In that
article he proved that for any computable axiomatic system that is powerful
enough to describe the arithmetic of the natural numbers, that
A. If the system is consistent, that it
cannot be complete.
B. The consistency of the axions cannot
be proven within the system.
Moses: Now I can see how God implemented such a system in our framework
whereby we cannot prove his existence, thus protecting the integrity of our
free will. I find that wonderfully insightful.
I
wish to conclude this part of our dialogue with this last observation :
I
must bring your attention to the wonderful aspect driven by faith - the one
that God does in fact reveal Himself (but not proving it) to people who search
for Him. God does this in many ways and on a level that that person can
understand, if he allows himself to have faith. In my case it was by way of a burning
bramble bush - can you imagine it !!!. You can read my whole story in Exodus.
Aristotle: You almost persuaded me to be a Christian *.
( * Act 26:26 For the king knoweth of these things, before
whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are
hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner. v:27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I
know that thou believest. v:28 Then
Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. v:29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only
thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such
as I am, .... )
So
what happens when the end of the world comes ?
Moses : Yes, and do you know the Christians shall rule over the universe.
Aristotle: I thought that they would only become Angles and live in Heaven.Moses: No, Angels have no free will, but Christians having free will, can therefore rule and minister as Kings and Priests, a thing the Angels cannot do. Jesus did not take the form of an Angel when He was resurrected - no - he took the form of His bretren*.
(* Heb
2:16
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took
on him the seed of Abraham. v:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his
brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining
to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.)
Aristotle: Sorry to change the subject Moses, as I see you have been getting
somewhat carried away and this is getting too complicating for me - maybe we
can pursue this part later.
What is all this talk about
Exodus II.
Moses: If you had cared to read my history, as you should have, you would
have known that I led the Israelites out of Egypt and out of bondage of the
ruler of that country, Pharoah, but it took ten plagues to get him to let God's
people go. He had dominion over Egypt, but God had dominion the Israelites, over
His own people.
This Exodus I also symbolizes Exodus II
where the Earth will have to let God's people be freed from the bondage of
Satan, who has dominion over this earth, having swindled ** it from Adam and Eve *. As it took ten plagues
to get Pharoah so far as to the people
go, it will also take ten plagues (the 7 Seals and the 3 Woes) to get Satan to
let go of God's people.
When I died (although I have been
resurrected after the argument with Satan), there was an argument between Satan
and Michael, the Archangel, for possession of my body. As Satan had dominion
over Earth and God had dominion over my body and soul, you can understand what
furore there was over my body, and this is the same type of argument that will
rep;eat itself at the end of time. Whereas Michael rebuked the Satan to get my
body, it will not be enough at the end of time for Michael to rebuke him, to
let God's people go - no - Michael will this time have to wage war against
Satan*** and Christ Himself will join in the battle ****.
(* Gen 1:26 And God said, Let
us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over
the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and
over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.)
(** 2Pe 2:19 ... , they
themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of
the same is he brought in bondage. )
(***
Rev 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the
dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,)
(**** Rev
19:11 And I saw heaven opened,
and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful
and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. v:12 12
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were
many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. v:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is
called The Word of God. v:14 And the
armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in
fine linen, white and clean.)
Aristotle: But
why were you chosen to be the leader of Exodus II ?
Moses: Because I successfully executed Exodus I, and it is the policy of
God to use experienced people (in the spiritual world) to do His work. If He
has given you some task and you execute it successfully, He gives you anbs even
greater one*.
You
will notice from my Biography (that part of the Bible), that I was very
reluctant to be the leader of Exodus I, but I sort of felt that I would redeem
myself if I accepted the leadership of Exodus II without any backchat. Of
course I cannot redeem myself, as everything I do is by the grace of God, but
somehow , the fact that God chose me for this new Exodus inspires me to do even
better.
(* Mat
25:20
And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five
talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have
gained beside them five talents more. v:21
His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful
servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over
many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.)
Aristotle: But why is God so intent on destroying the earth, the ungodly and
everything on the planet? He could just have renewed it into the New Earth ?
Moses: He had to destroy the legacy of the Fall of Adam and everything
that was contaminated by Satan due tot his seduction, including the people who
were born of Satanic blood, called the Nephilim*.
(* Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days;
and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were
of old, men of renown. v:5 And GOD saw
that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every
imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
v:6 And it repented the LORD that he had
made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. v:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I
have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping
thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Aristotle: You have indeed brought wisdom to my knowledge, for which I thank
you.
Moses: And you have brought knowledge* to my wisdom*, for which I wish I
thank you.
(* Pro
1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but
fools despise wisdom and instruction.)
Aristotle: I hope we can meet up for some further discussion and debate later,
when you are not so busy resettling the Israelites. I really want to know how
you moved with your consecrated body faster than the speed of light, on your
way here, as I can see you are now again flesh and blood.
Is
it true that it has something to do with Einstein's theory depicted in this the
limerick of someone who understood a
little of it :
There was a young lady, Miss Bright
Who could move much faster than lightShe went out one day, in a relative way
And came back the previous night.
There
can be miracles when you believe.
Many
nights we've prayed
With no proof anyone could hear
In our hearts a hopeful song
We barely understood
Now we are not afraid
Although we know there's much to fear
We were moving mountains long
Before we knew we could
There can be miracles, when you believe
Though hope is frail, it's hard to kill
Who knows what miracles you can achieve
When you believe, somehow you will
You will when you believe
In this time of fear
When prayers so often prove(s) in vain
Hope seems like the summer birds
Too swiftly flown away
Yet now I'm standing here
My heart's so full I can't explain
Seeking faith and speaking words
I never thought I'd say
There can be miracles, when you believe
Though hope is frail, it's hard to kill
Who knows what miracles you can achieve
When you believe, somehow you will
You will when you believe
They don't (always happen) when you ask
And it's easy to give in to your fears
But when you're blinded by your pain
Can't see your way straight throught the rain
(A small but )still resilient voice
Says (hope is very near)
There can be miracles
When you believe
Though hope is frail
It's hard to kill
Who knows what miracles,you can achieve
When you believe, somehow you will
somehow you will
You will when you believe
With no proof anyone could hear
In our hearts a hopeful song
We barely understood
Now we are not afraid
Although we know there's much to fear
We were moving mountains long
Before we knew we could
There can be miracles, when you believe
Though hope is frail, it's hard to kill
Who knows what miracles you can achieve
When you believe, somehow you will
You will when you believe
In this time of fear
When prayers so often prove(s) in vain
Hope seems like the summer birds
Too swiftly flown away
Yet now I'm standing here
My heart's so full I can't explain
Seeking faith and speaking words
I never thought I'd say
There can be miracles, when you believe
Though hope is frail, it's hard to kill
Who knows what miracles you can achieve
When you believe, somehow you will
You will when you believe
They don't (always happen) when you ask
And it's easy to give in to your fears
But when you're blinded by your pain
Can't see your way straight throught the rain
(A small but )still resilient voice
Says (hope is very near)
There can be miracles
When you believe
Though hope is frail
It's hard to kill
Who knows what miracles,you can achieve
When you believe, somehow you will
somehow you will
You will when you believe
(* Joh 9:24 Then again called they the man that was
blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a
sinner. v:25 He answered and said,
Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that,
whereas I was blind, now I see. v:26
Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine
eyes? v:27 He answered them, I have told
you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will
ye also be his disciples? v:28 Then they
reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
v:29 We know that God spake unto Moses: as
for this fellow, we know not from whence he is. v:30 The man answered and said unto them, Why
herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet
he hath opened mine eyes. v:31 Now we
know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and
doeth his will, him he heareth.)
Aristotle: Thanks
Moses, see you later. I hope I can find this Apollo Luceus somewhere. He will
have a piece of my mind !!!
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